See his article blasting us for charging extra for ringtones, headlined, "The Ringtone Racket." You know what? He's right. I've made a big deal about how any business that's based on screwing customers or forcing customers to do things they don't want to do is doomed to failure. Now here we are, taking part in just that kind of behavior. And yeah, we can use the excuse that the record labels are making us do this, but you know what? That's lame. If I were a customer I'd be the first to call bullshit on that.
Money quote from Gruber: "Faced with the choice between doing what’s right for customers or charging them money for something they shouldn’t need to pay for, Apple chose the latter. There is no middle ground. And any business that hinges on your customers 'not knowing any better' is a bad business."
Namaste, John Gruber. I honor the place where you and I become one. Perhaps, if enough people complain, we will drop this policy at some point in the future and make ringtones free. And maybe, at that point, we will offer anyone who paid 99 cents for a ringtone a retroactive partial rebate in the form of a fifty-cent store credit. I've got Phil Schiller working on this right now. Peace out.
Friday, September 14, 2007
I hate to say it, but Gruber is right about ringtones
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The Ringtones are a big slap in the face for the perceived notion that "Apple actually fights against injustice". this perception is one reason many folks find Apple appealing. The underdog taking the establishment has always had a market in the US/world. Seems like this bulldog is now looking out for Number #1. Who says size doesn't corrupt?
Steve:
You know what kills me about all these Rtards?
You offer a better deal, you undercut the competition and everyone bitches and whines.
FOR GODS SAKES YOU WHINEY ASS RTARDS!
IT IS CALLED BUSINESS AND MAKING MONEY!
NOT GIVE A DOG A BONE, WIPE HIS ASS AND COOK HIM A HAMBURGER.
These so called analysist are so friggin RETARDED.
Steve, I have have the next great thing for Apple to mass produce for all the idiots.
THE iGun. You stick it in your big fat mouth, pull the trigger and you get a happy ending. And not the kind of happy ending you get at a massage parlor...
I would be happy if they would just shut the hell up!
...note to self, don't let your inner monolouge out while blogging.
Thanks Steve
Gruber is right, but what does Apple do?
People want to pollute public spaces with inane clips from their inane songs - sorry, personalize their phone - and iPhone users are no different in that regard.
So do Apple allow people to upload any sound clip they want to their iPhones to use as a ringtone?
Ideally yes. But the record companies won't like it and the ringtone business is pretty big business for them - much bigger than most realize - and they'd not be happy at all with Apple doing that.
And these big aforementioned companies also provide much of the music on the ITunes Music Store and are part of the same groups that own much of the TV and Movie content that Apple wants to sell too - so Apple has to play nice.
Gruber is correct here, but unfortunately we live in a nasty ruthless world full of evil capitalists backed up by even more ruthless lawyers. They see ringtones as a different rights usage and therefore extra revenue.
So I don't think that Apple had much choice other than to provide the best solution that they could out of a crappy, greedy situation because of the record companies.
People need to give Apple a break here. Yes, cutting the iPhone price was evil and totally Apple screwing up, but I don't think that the ringtone situation is what they want.
Peace out, FSJ!
Dear Mr. Jobs,
We at Homeland Security believe you have missed a business opportunity and would like you to consider a partnership.
As you know, the special code Apple has installed in all iPhones, as required by Homeland Security, permitting us to eavesdrop on all calls could also be used to create custom ringtones that could be assigned to each person in the Contact list automatically.
For example, the recorded call to a person's wife could be used in its entirety as it consists solely of, "Yes Dear. Yes Dear. Yes Dear."
That would make a great ringtone as I'm sure you will agree.
Please don't worry about expletives, Mr. Jobs. Our sophisticated verbal keyword recognition software will automatically filter that out.
For example, the latest call you made on your iPhone to Mr. Gates that we dutifully recorded would not result in a ringtone of, "Fuck you Gates. Fuck Windows too."
That would be harsh and ruin the kharma you work so hard to fake.
Feel free to discuss this idea with your management team and developers. As always, we'll monitor all the discussions.
Yours truly,
Homeland Security
He does have a good point about "Proup 1", although it is hard to say how much arm twisting from the record label side went on to keep Group 1 out of the mix to at least be able to offer some of the Group 3 tracks.
Apple might be negotiating from good position but they can't dictate terms and so you do have give ground here and there. Sure that sucks because it is our ground that they are giving up (or at least it impacts us). But there are already a couple options if you think you time is worth less than the 99¢ and you are planning on using a LOT of ringtones or you just have to have Billie Holiday singing Strange Fruit as your ringtone for your wierd uncle living down in 'Bama.
P.S.
iToner should serve as another example where being a dickhead does cost you money. Because created a barrier on one thing (Group 1) it created the demand to break the barrier with a tool that also has the side effect of actually eating the stuff you are trying to sell (Group 2 and 3).
Gruber usually has some good insights, but this is all protesting too much over something of goddamned little importance. And anyone who ever believed that "Apple fights against injustice" with no evidence other than fanboy fantasy is a fool. Whatever happened to loving Apple products because they are well designed and work better than anything else? Jesus.
Also, these morons buying ringtones should have to pay $5.95 every time I have to listen to their fucking moronic tunes going off in their handbags and pockets.
dmacman,
whoa. the iGun? maybe a little less meat in your diet and some bran and fruit for a few weeks will get you to chill...
who give a crap about ringtones?
they are annoying and inmature AND they just happen to be the only thing that the loser wireless companies have been able to sell to "the kids" with phones.
if you won't buy an iphone because it charges a little for ring tones (or better yet doesn't have them) you should be on the "list" to not be allowed one anyway.
My recommendation on pricing is charge MORE. Especially for the more annoying songs.
What about a per call charge - that's even better.
-kevin
I think the FCC should force all phone manufacturers to only offer vibrate ring "tones" on their phones. That way no one has to hear any bad music through bad speakers. Plus, if the phones are properly placed, they could relieve a lot of stress so that people don't get so upset over freaking ring tones.
It's IP. The record companies own it. They can set license terms however they want. You don't "buy" songs, you license them under terms of a contract, which the owners can set any way they want. It's like the copyright on Gruber's blog.
And it's ringtones. What a tempest in a teapot. Who cares. How many ringtones is anybody going to buy in a lifetime anyway?
Counting the seconds until Gruber's Google Alert arrives and he does the ego link to this post.
Make your own tones with
http://osx.iusethis.com/app/makeiphoneringtone
I was on the verge of signing up for a 3 year tour with Greenpeace when I heard about this Ringtone scandal. I will not rest until all humanity has the right to listen to "Bootylicious" free of charge when dialing up my iPhone.
Kevin...
You're right.
Sorry for my rant.
But I have listen to this stuff so long.
Maybe some bran would be good for me...?
You said you might offer a "partial rebate in the form of a fifty-cent store credit"
But what about those of us who don't like Fifty Cent? Can't we get credit for other artists?
Yours,
Fake iTunes Store User
Makes me glad I leave my phone on vibrate most of the time.
One the plus side, by very obviously selling the song at least twice (once for the song, and once for each ring tone from the song), Apple has made it clear what a rip-off ring tones really are, making sure that people will get mad at the entire idea.
Namaste.
It's not about how annoying ringtones are, or how stupid and retarded people that use them are.
It's about your rights as a consumer.
Gruber may be a fanboy, but that entire post was full of logic.
"maybe a little less meat in your diet and some bran and fruit for a few weeks will get you to chill..."
Don't know about him, but that would actually make me noticeably crankier...
Maybe it's more of an issue of the carriers now wanting to lose money on ringtones. Maybe it's a part of the deal with at&t?
say the mantra with me now...
There is only one ringtone, and that is 'vibrate.'
There is only one ringtone, and that is 'vibrate.'
There is only one ringtone, and that is 'vibrate.'
--chuck
Custom ringtones are annoying, so anything -- even lame, blatant ripoffss-- that keeps people from using them is a good thing. Thanks, Steve.
Why does this guy Gruber think that ring tones should be free?
Oh, wait... I get it!
A novel idea...you like origianl good music, I like original good music, Jobsie, so why not tell ALL the labels to fuck off, already? My plan, be your "own" label. Apple has enough cash reserves, now, and we damn sure know that what passes for music, nowadays, is pure crapTM. So, let's go out and find good music. A crazy idea, I know. What started this Apple Music Store was the overwhelming majority of opinion that MP3 was killing bands. I definitely don't want to kill good music. Do you? But, let's keep traditional music "labels" out of this, can we? (insert apple logo):Changing the worldTM
When they tell the user they are getting something for free and then they are charged that is sneaky, but then again, why did the user offer their credit card?
Vibrate is well and good... If you can actually feel it. I notice my phone vibrating only half of the time and it's not like I have thick pant pockets or anything. And with custom ringtones, I can know who's calling immediately. People think they're cool for slamming custom ringtones, but they actually have a practical purpose too.
iFuntastic 3.5.5 is iTunes 7.4.x compatible. It allows you to add .wav, .mp3, .aif and .m4a as ringtones. It’s at iPhone Alley.
if is going to charge extra to use *your* music for a ringtone, why don't they charge people extra when they add a track to a movie in iMovie, or iDVD? I just don't get it. The logic just doesn't extend to other apps or ways in which people use tracks in their music library. For this very reason, I think that the ringtone racket will eventually go away.
I use "minitones" on my Treo to trim any part of a MP3 to be a ringtone. The program is free, and the ringtone is free.
"People want to pollute public spaces with inane clips from their inane songs - sorry, personalize their phone - and iPhone users are no different in that regard."
Indeed. The ringtards in Asia are the worst. Honestly, have you heard of it? The bollocks these people put on their phones is astounding. And they pay for it.
"You said you might offer a "partial rebate in the form of a fifty-cent store credit"
But what about those of us who don't like Fifty Cent? Can't we get credit for other artists?"
Ha ha... Brilliant!
"toki-chan said...
Makes me glad I leave my phone on vibrate most of the time."
Indeed. I have recently turned my fairly default Sony Ericsson ringtone to minimum, and just set it on vibrate.
Surprisingly, this has enabled me to notice *more* whenever I get a call, with the sound turned virtually off. Go figure.
"grandmaster fud said...
The Ringtones are a big slap in the face for the perceived notion that "Apple actually fights against injustice". this perception is one reason many folks find Apple appealing. The underdog taking the establishment has always had a market in the US/world. Seems like this bulldog is now looking out for Number #1."
grandtard, you should realise that whatever true Justice-fightingness Apple had went out the window 5 years ago. Or maybe 10. Or maybe, they are just A FRIGGIN TECHNOLOGY COMPANY NOT AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. Have you heard of Amnesty International?
The old saying don't sweat the small stuff applies to Apple trying to milk money out of ringtones. You try and hold the TV networks, and movie distribution to lower pricing and then you try to charge for this. It's obvious you are not practicing what you are preaching. Charging anything for a ringtone after you've bought the song is pretty petty. Feels a little like MS on this one. Is there something here we're really missing or this just another little tax on a what is a damn good phone!
FSJ,
Someone should form a band called "Ringtone", and release a single called "Ringtones".
That'll lend gravitas to the discussion nicely. You know, like "I bought ringtone's ringtones, now you say I have to pay extra for ringtones of ringtone's ringtones? You must be wrong in the head!". Or, "Turn off that damn annoying ringtone of ringtone's ringtones".
Vegan Vegan
(Sabot in the machine at every opportunity)
Well on the one hand you're brilliant el jobso for showing folks that paying up twice for ringtones is silly but on the other hand I have myself a 5600-SMT and I just fire up an full mp3 onto my phone and that's a ringtone without any payments to telcos or Apple. Did I mention that my phone runs a mobile version of the beastmaster's OS and I didn't have to pay extra for the ringtone-ability of the song there iPhone-ites? :)
Steve, I know it's off-piste but your rebate comment got me thinking. About the iPhone. Are you planning to reduce it by a further $200 in, say, October and another $200 in time for Christmas. And is this your cunning plan to take over the mobile phone industry? As a Brit, I'm still waiting in line, but I'm reckon that by the time they show up over here, you'll owe me a dollar. Whadda say?
People like me will "complain" by not buying a single ringtone and simply making our own.
What amazes me is that I haven't had a single phone in the last 3 or 4 years that didn't play MP3s. ALL of them allowed me to set a song or sound in MP3 format as the ringtone. I have never understood why people pay for these things.
I only need two ringtones.. a recording of an old manly 50's telephone ringing, and the Imperial March for when my wife calls..
You know, it isn't really the record companies that have been slavering (slobbering) over the ringtone market, as much as it has been the telcos.
What makes them slobber is the fact that people will drop 4 bucks for 30 seconds, and do it over and over. Yes it can be done smartly and for less. That isn't the market the greedy ones see. It is Little miss junior miss milking Mommy and Daddy on some whim, for the trade that mom and dad can call the kids once in a while.
All Steve did was make it 99 cents, giving a bit to the songwriters as usual, give some creative choice to the buyers in the matter, making it slightly less predatory.
If you have to hook into iTunes to get one, rather than just dialing some number via an infomercial while you are drunk (if an older purchaser) or showing off to your classmates (if younger), you are less likely to be spitting cash into the wind.
There are few tranactions in the economy that are under 5 bucks, if a human being is involved in anyway.
Ringtards?
Ring ring ring ringtones
ching ching ching ching ching cash comes
RIAA greed!
---
iGun: Click to terminate process.
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